1.2 8v - Misfire From Cold

[kayyou]

Our car is a Twingo Freeway. 1.2 8v, '10 plate. It's done about 19,000 miles.

From cold it's stated misfiring, and over time this has got worse to the point that it barely runs on the first start, sometimes. The Spanner and Engine lights come on for some time after the misfire too. Vibration can be felt through the gearstick at that time.

Usually either a couple more starts, or a few minutes of driving, or idling with the foot gently on the gas will clear it. It also seems to be using more fuel than before the problem started.

It's just come back from an MOT and has passed, even the emissions.

After a few minutes of driving, the car feels fine.

The garage tried changing the HT leads, but that wasn't it. They also used some sort of datalogger to read the error logs, apparently it said: misfire on cyl2, and, later on cyl 4 - this confused them because the issue seems to have moved. Their suggestion is to take it to a Renault garage because they will have various spare parts to try, whereas this garage will be be ordering chargeable parts which may, or, may not fix the problem. At its last service it had one sparkplug changed, but I guess this is not the issue as the misfire moves. The garage that did the MOT said they've pulled the plugs and checked the gap etc. No problem found there...

So - any suggestions? I have a basic knowledge of cars, a multimeter and a few spanners/sockets. What can I test myself to help minimise the labour costs if we take it to dealer?

I'm thinking maybe a sensor issue somewhere? Temperature?

Can I tell if the coil is out of spec in some way?

Anyway - cheers in advance for the help, or even for just reading this far

Regards,

Sam

 

[oscar]

hello, i'm a trained RTE (master tech).

what was the specific fault code and do you have the emissions print outs to hand, otherwise it'll just be a guessing game and no advice anybody can give you will be useful unfortunately. seeing as though it's passed emissions though, it'll no doubt be a cold starting issue which will no doubt render the issue down to the ignition / charging system. this may be down to an intermittent miss fire stemming from the coil pack itself, an alternator not charging correctly or a battery that's needing replaced as it's not holding charge as should. i have listed you some links to check this yourself, so that you may gauge what the battery condition should be like approximately on a healthy battery with the ignition off / on + charging as well as some guided diagnostics for various issues to help you in your diagnostics procedure.

how/how-check-battery-condition-make-sure-charging-t11916.html
technical-stuff-f120/guided-diagnostics-t11650.html

 

[kayyou]

Yo.

Thanks for the reply. The battery is actually [so I am now reminded by my better half] a bit crap. We'll measure the battery voltage etc [I haven't read those guides yet but i will] and perhaps changing the battery might fix the problem.

Good call.

Here's a link to/pic of the emissions report, but I think there's not a lot of info on this page...

Thanks!

 

[oscar]

those values look just about spot on, infact a brand new twingo would struggle to hit those fingers .. bloody hell! obviously you understand it's extremely difficult to diagnose something over the internet lol.

anyway, it would seem that you have an issue with cold starting (obviously, you mentioned it first lol). so there could be a whole host of causes such as the ones i previously mentioned. with the battery, you may have a loose connection somewhere which would result in a loss of charge. in the morning when you try to crank, it will barely have enough juice to turn itself over so adding some 'gas' as the yanks say helps to stop it stalling by adding more fuel to pick up the revs whilst the alternator goes to work charging it. my suggestion would be to follow my guide i linked you to, check the battery voltage after you turn the engine off home from work etc then if possible try and do a quick check before you leave in the morning - is there a noticeable drop in voltage? if so, you have something called a parasitic draw. if you imagine a loose wire somewhere draining all the juice slowly it may also just be the case that the battery is close to death. you need a special tool to perform a cranking test to see the condition of the cells, something you can't judge from a basic multimeter test but the multimeter test is usually enough to gauge a humped battery shall we say!

there could also be other faults related to ECU grounding damage due to water ingress somehow somewhere. this sort of thing can be detected by a specialist with access to the special renault diagnostic equipment called clip. it can distinguish problems in real time with fuel injection sequence, ignition problems relating to the wasted spark sequence, grounding problems, live sensor data .... basically plug it in, get the live data and start it up and record all sensor data while the engine goes nuts on a cold start. a renault specialist will be able to get you an exact diagnostic ... wheras your local garage so to speak won't have this capability. that's not to say they won't have fancy diagnostic tools but you can't quite beat the factory diagnostic tool for each make of car!

for your own peace of mind, please don't take it to a renault dealership can i ask where you are from so that i can recommend you an independant renaultsport specialist, i know that your freeway isn't a 'sport' but these sorts of places are the places you want to be in this sort of situation. they've seen it all before, really know their stuff and will get to the route of the problem. when you take your car to renault, your car is being worked on by apprentices. usually a second year apprentice under guided instruction from an RTE (master tech) and you will end up with a sizely bill. unfortunately i seen it happen all the time, as it's the labour bill that's the killer here not the actual fault finding itself. even if the nearest specialist i can recommend is an hours drive away it will still be worth your while, even if you just pay for a diagnostic and do the work yourself mate it'll leave your wallet happy and lift your confidence knowing that there are some good mechanics out there!

 

[kayyou]

Okay dude, that's really helpful.

We're in Bradford. Leeds is close enough, of course.

 

[oscar]

Okay dude, that's really helpful.

We're in Bradford. Leeds is close enough, of course.

it's going to be rs tunning in leeds, if you know it? give them a call to confirm they have clip diagnostics though, but being renault specialists i don't see why they wouldn't. they are very well known on various renault forums for their quality of work. plenty of guys on here will second this! be sure to check out your battery first though

https://www.rstuning.co.uk/

also try ddc doncaster, i know they do fantastic work too.
https://www.ddconline.co.uk/

 

[kayyou]

Will do - cool beans

 

[kayyou]

A Megane RS owner suggested RS Murray and Son.

Any feedback on them?

 

[oscar]

yeah mate, that's one of the guys who owns RS Tunnings fathers place! renault specialists too offcourse, hear nothing but good things

 

[kayyou]

Hey, just to let you all know the issue disappeared by itself

We may well still visit that garage - the car will be sold in about 10 months, so a damn fine tuneup before then would be a good idea.

Thanks again, all.

Sam

 

[sullii94]

Hey, just to let you all know the issue disappeared by itself

We may well still visit that garage - the car will be sold in about 10 months, so a damn fine tuneup before then would be a good idea.

Thanks again, all.

Sam

Sent my car there for the cambelt doing last year, believe he may be selling up though! :/