A bit of help/advice required before buying please

[Tev+]

Hi all, a bit of a background to my situation. I currently own a Subaru Impreza STI 2005 and have done for 3 years. It's been an awesome car to own but my circumstances have now changed and I'm soon to be the owner of my first home. However much I'd like to keep it, unfortunately the car will have to make way for something cheaper to run/maintain.

Even before the house sitauation I had been looking at Integra DC5s but I think I want something more economical still. So I then moved onto looking at Lupo GTIs which I had my heart set on until a friend asked if I'd considered a Twingo RS. I hadn't, and didn't know anything about them. At first I just dismissed the idea until I looked into them. I was shocked at how many different options there are and after my research I've decided I definitely want the cup chassis and do like the idea of the individual sliding rear seats, meaning it would have to be a full fat with cup chassis. I would also consider the Gordini, but again would have to have the cup chassis.

Anyway I've been looking a while and finally have a bit of free time on Saturday which I plan to look at a few and have a drive to make sure it's definitely what I want. A lot of the cars at dealers don't specify whether they have the cup chassis, will this be a case of they haven't got it or the dealer just doesn't know? I will be calling before I view, so will ask the question, but just wanted opinions.

There are a few cup models out there for sale, would you recommend one of these or go for the full fat + cup?

Also, do people think these cars have done most of their deprecating by now? From what I've seen I think I'm going to be looking at ones around 5k.

My car history is (in order):
K11 Nissan Micra
VW Polo 6n
Toyota Starlet GT turbo
EP3 Civic Type R
Subaru Impreza STI

So as you can see I've never owned a French car and never really considered one until now. I know the only way I'll know is to go out and test drive them but do you think one of these would be a good move? I've read some reviews saying get the Clio 172/182/197 instead as the Twingo is underpowered. However the whole point of this, for me, is to keep running costs down. Are they as underpowered as people say?

I understand it's going to be completely different to my last couple of cars but I'm sort of hoping it's like the Starlet in that it's small and nippy. I imagine it won't be as quick as the Starlet but hopefully better handling. I loved the Starlet and do miss it.

Thanks for any help and sorry for the essay but I don't want to regret it.

 

[jml]

Hi,
Not going to lie, the twingo is really quite underpowered, but like you said it is still pretty nippy.

The way I look at it is to look at cars that are more or less the equivalent power, which is the 2 litre turbo diesels. It is more than capable and bags of fun.

If I had a choice now, between a twingo and a clio, it would be a difficult choice because I have enjoyed it so much! My view is that it is like the traditional hot hatches, which all used to be underpowered compared to what is being pumped out as a hot hatch of today! The good thing about it is that you can also maintain it for fairly cheaply because it is essentially cobbled together from other parts from the Renault range.

 

[mrbushrat]

I don't think the Twingo is underpowerd at all ! I swapped my Octavia vrs for mine and don't regret it at all .
It helps when you get rid of the heavy 17" alloys and drop to 15" mind .

 

[Tev+]

Thanks for the replies.
I went out today and looked at 3, drove 2 of them. Both of the ones I drove were the cup versions. First impressions were that I was quite underwhelmed by the power but I couldn't help comparing it to what I'm used to. When I put that aside, I realise they are quite nippy and while I didn't really get much of a chance to throw it around I could definitely see the potential.

I really liked the second one that I drove but now really need to have a think about whether I want a cup or wait for a full fat + cup. All the cars I've seen today were white, which I've sort of set my heart on. I think I would like to view a Gordini in the flesh first though and go from there.

But all in all I'm impressed by them and still really fancy one.

 

[toots]

I've dropped down from a Focus ST to a Twingo RS for similar financial reasons and you can't but help compare the two. You'll certainly notice a drop in power but the Twingo feels a lot nipper round town, less heavy then the STI or ST, handles like a go cart with the cup chassis - almost back to basics, old school.

The other thing you'll notice is the lack of 6th gear for motorway cruising. The Twingo is quite closely geared, 4000rpm in 5th is 79mph. So if you're planning to do a lot of motorway mileage you may need some earplugs.

It's a balance, you can't have all the power and 30+ mpg there's got to be a trade off somewhere. In my old ST round town I did well to get 18mpg, in the Twingo I average 29mpg.

They are loads of fun for the driver but non of my passengers look forward to taking a ride with me, they do get bounced all over the place but that's possibly me, I'm quite exuberant a driver.

All the best.

 

[Tev+]

I've dropped down from a Focus ST to a Twingo RS for similar financial reasons and you can't but help compare the two. You'll certainly notice a drop in power but the Twingo feels a lot nipper round town, less heavy then the STI or ST, handles like a go cart with the cup chassis - almost back to basics, old school.

The other thing you'll notice is the lack of 6th gear for motorway cruising. The Twingo is quite closely geared, 4000rpm in 5th is 79mph. So if you're planning to do a lot of motorway mileage you may need some earplugs.

It's a balance, you can't have all the power and 30+ mpg there's got to be a trade off somewhere. In my old ST round town I did well to get 18mpg, in the Twingo I average 29mpg.

They are loads of fun for the driver but non of my passengers look forward to taking a ride with me, they do get bounced all over the place but that's possibly me, I'm quite exuberant a driver.

All the best.

Thanks for the reply. From everything I've read I don't think I'll regret the decision. I'm always changing my mind when it comes to cars but I'm pretty much set on one after all I've read and the test drives. So now it's just a case of waiting for the right one to come up for sale. One thing I have noticed though is a lot of the ones for sale are from traders and not too many private. Is the market for them pretty small as the more popular choice is the clio? It doesn't matter too much as I intend to keep it a while.

 

[toots]

Possibly, my theory only, is as they are few and far between and not as popular as Clio RS's they take a while to sell on the private market so most are traded in part ex.

Since I've owned mine over the last 18 months I can count on one hand the number of 133's I've seen near me in that time. It's a bit of an event for me when I do see another one, I want to have a good look round.

If you're after originality then a 133 certainly ticks that box.

 

[Tev+]

That was my thoughts exactly when I saw that most are from traders. I definitely do like the idea of exclusivity which is one of the things that drew me to a DC5 previously.
Until I started looking at them I can't really say I would've noticed them on the road. But since I have I've seen a white one parked up near my work and a Gordini. Should also add that I'm a lorry driver so spend a lot of time on the roads so yeah I would agree they are few and far between. I see loads of the original ones though but that's the same with anything.
I suppose as a buyer, the fact they are quite hard to sell privately can only be an advantage.

 

[Cup RS 133]

Tbh mate amount of problems I've had with my cup consider carefully and maybe get the car checked over before buying. Someone said most parts are interchangeable with clio which is true to some extent but most parts are dealer rip off jobbies. With the RS not been a particular common mainstream car manufactures don't bother makeing some parts for them. Control arms for example your looking 150 quid each compare that to a standerd twingo which u can get for peanuts. Of course if it's in warranty u won't have to pay well hopefully knowing Reno! I know I'm been abit of a downer on it lol they are fun cars just don't expect anything near the quality of the scooby maybe I've been unlucky but on the other hand can't think of another Car I'd like to drive ATM when alls well with it enough of me blabbering on hope you find a good example if u decide to get one.

 

[Cliocraig]

Hi trev
I went from a Clio 172 to a twingo, as Clio was costing too much to insure/petrol and tax. Yeah you will certainly notice the difference in speed, plus u will notice road noise (which is a pain in the a**) but find a B road and u won't stop smiling. I have a 133 ff with cup packs. Is a bouncy ride over all the pot holes but fun and nippy. Watch what u buy as I've noticed most 133s I've seen at dealers they throw the "cup" name about a bit. Most are ff not cups.
And yeah not a lot on the road (which I like) I've had mine 2 mths and love it.

 

[Tev+]

Tbh mate amount of problems I've had with my cup consider carefully and maybe get the car checked over before buying. Someone said most parts are interchangeable with clio which is true to some extent but most parts are dealer rip off jobbies. With the RS not been a particular common mainstream car manufactures don't bother makeing some parts for them. Control arms for example your looking 150 quid each compare that to a standerd twingo which u can get for peanuts. Of course if it's in warranty u won't have to pay well hopefully knowing Reno! I know I'm been abit of a downer on it lol they are fun cars just don't expect anything near the quality of the scooby maybe I've been unlucky but on the other hand can't think of another Car I'd like to drive ATM when alls well with it enough of me blabbering on hope you find a good example if u decide to get one.

Ah that is a bit worrying lol. I've always said I'd never have a French car after the trouble my dad had years ago with a Laguna and the trouble my mate had with his 106. But I've read that Renault reliability now isn't a problem and maybe you were unlucky. To be fair all I ever heard about VW was about how reliable they are etc, yet my Polo with only 53k gave me nothing but trouble, I put that down to just being unlucky with it.

At the moment I am thinking it'll be worth the risk though and I really hope I drop on the right one.

 

[Tev+]

Hi trev
I went from a Clio 172 to a twingo, as Clio was costing too much to insure/petrol and tax. Yeah you will certainly notice the difference in speed, plus u will notice road noise (which is a pain in the a**) but find a B road and u won't stop smiling. I have a 133 ff with cup packs. Is a bouncy ride over all the pot holes but fun and nippy. Watch what u buy as I've noticed most 133s I've seen at dealers they throw the "cup" name about a bit. Most are ff not cups.
And yeah not a lot on the road (which I like) I've had mine 2 mths and love it.

Everything I read seems to be pointing to the same things with regards to missing the power and the difference in road noise but it will hopefully be worth it for the fun factor.

Out of the 3 I saw last weekend, 2 of them were the actual cup model with the bench seat. The other one was a FF but I've read on here if it's the cup chassis the rear shocks have pink/purple bands, which this one did have. Is this the only way to tell?
I got in touch with a garage requiring if the Gordini one they had was a cup chassis. He said he didn't know but when I told him about the purple bands he said they were just blue so I presumed it was a non cup and didn't make the journey.

 

[Cup RS 133]

Don't get me wrong the engine & gear box have been fine touch wood, never broken down in the 20,000 I've put on the car and it's currently on 63k apart from the gearbox mount pin snapping and as a result it was sat on the subframe. I'm also due a cambelt change which isn't cheap something to think about when your looking for one aswell, I have a cup which as u say as the bench seat in, all cups come with cup chassis and fancy 17 inch alloys no aircon or tints. The shocks should have a purple dot on them so should the springs, it's definitely worth the risk for the way the car handles and feels not many cars nowadays can compare if your after a old school type of warm hatch. Keep us all updated how you get on.

 

[Tev+]

Don't get me wrong the engine & gear box have been fine touch wood, never broken down in the 20,000 I've put on the car and it's currently on 63k apart from the gearbox mount pin snapping and as a result it was sat on the subframe. I'm also due a cambelt change which isn't cheap something to think about when your looking for one aswell, I have a cup which as u say as the bench seat in, all cups come with cup chassis and fancy 17 inch alloys no aircon or tints. The shocks should have a purple dot on them so should the springs, it's definitely worth the risk for the way the car handles and feels not many cars nowadays can compare if your after a old school type of warm hatch. Keep us all updated how you get on.

What kind of trouble have you had with it then? Yeah cambelt is something I'm going to have to budget for as most I've seen haven't had it done and they're coming to the age where they need it. Looking around £500 for it doing if I'm right?
I may end up going for a cup version but ideally would prefer the sliding rear seats. Only trouble is, there's not too many full fat up for sale that mention the cup chassis.
I'll keep this updated with how I get on and will no doubt be a regular. I'm thinking about going to look at one on Sunday if it's still there, but it's 130mile from me so a bit of a trek. Failing that I may revisit the ones from last weekend. One of them was a full fat with cup chassis but it was a bit tatty. I couldn't test drive as it had only just come in and it hadn't been prepped.

 

[Cup RS 133]

Lol well first thing I had to change was the pin on gearbox the mounts are really weak on these I've got the vibratecnics dogbone mount which helps gear changes less jerky. The oem mounts really are not up to the job don't last long at all if u can get under bonnet when u have a look at one & give engine a wiggle you'll know if there shot. Next was a split resonator got that welded up but since bought a ktec downpipe system was haveing endless amount of blowing issues. One of the control arm bushes had split which worn out the joint u can only byy the whole arm in the RS's but someone on hear found the supplier ocap I think it is and bought aload of the ball joints in bulk and sells em for like 50 quid, only trouble is you have to weld a pieace of tube to unscrew them them make a three pronged socket to get new one in. Potentially it can save you 100 quid though. Lol this list of stuff go on forever but I've had top mounts changed track rod ends, inner tie rods, rear tailgate lock, airbag warning light due to crap connections under seat. Now my central lockings playing up, I do feel like it's never ending but I've spent so much kinda feel like it wouldn't be worth me selling it and continue to sort the problems out if u know what I mean. Certainly keeps me busy best thing to do is search through the forum and look at the problems etc that people have had kinda wish I had before I bought mine it'll give you the advantage when u come to buy so u know what to look out for. As for choose ing which one to go for the cup would still be my choice less stuff to go wrong lol and obvously handles that bit better, I have the black and white themed cup only seen 1 other on the road and a couple of others, once I saw it I knew I had to get it cause it's quirky and uncommon but then u pay the price In parts, overall though just the way it drives and revving that NA engine just out about makes up for the pain in the A*s it can be lol.

 

[Tev+]

Lol well first thing I had to change was the pin on gearbox the mounts are really weak on these I've got the vibratecnics dogbone mount which helps gear changes less jerky. The oem mounts really are not up to the job don't last long at all if u can get under bonnet when u have a look at one & give engine a wiggle you'll know if there shot. Next was a split resonator got that welded up but since bought a ktec downpipe system was haveing endless amount of blowing issues. One of the control arm bushes had split which worn out the joint u can only byy the whole arm in the RS's but someone on hear found the supplier ocap I think it is and bought aload of the ball joints in bulk and sells em for like 50 quid, only trouble is you have to weld a pieace of tube to unscrew them them make a three pronged socket to get new one in. Potentially it can save you 100 quid though. Lol this list of stuff go on forever but I've had top mounts changed track rod ends, inner tie rods, rear tailgate lock, airbag warning light due to crap connections under seat. Now my central lockings playing up, I do feel like it's never ending but I've spent so much kinda feel like it wouldn't be worth me selling it and continue to sort the problems out if u know what I mean. Certainly keeps me busy best thing to do is search through the forum and look at the problems etc that people have had kinda wish I had before I bought mine it'll give you the advantage when u come to buy so u know what to look out for. As for choose ing which one to go for the cup would still be my choice less stuff to go wrong lol and obvously handles that bit better, I have the black and white themed cup only seen 1 other on the road and a couple of others, once I saw it I knew I had to get it cause it's quirky and uncommon but then u pay the price In parts, overall though just the way it drives and revving that NA engine just out about makes up for the pain in the A*s it can be lol.

Wow as you say that is quite a list! The only real common problems I thought were the ball joints, which a lot seem to have had done under warranty. I will have to keep this in mind when I'm looking. The reason I didn't want to go older than the scoob was I wanted something that should be reliable lol. But like you've said maybe you've just been a bit unlucky, but yeah I see what you mean by you've had a lot of stuff done so probably worth keeping hold of. I do like the white ones, it'd just be hard to keep the thing clean but I do spend a bit of time cleaning when I get chance so should be ok. When I was looking at DC5's I'd have only considered a white one anyway.
But now I really need to make sure it's what I want. I'll probably drag my dad along to future viewings as he's clued up when it comes to cars. Cheers

 

[jml]

Just for the record, only issue i have had was a track rod end and a broken spring (which I am blaming on hitting one too many huge potholes where I live) on 54k now. As for the cam belt, so long as you aren't too bothered about original parts, I bought myself an entire service kit for about 150 quid and am just going to do it all myself.



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[Tev+]

A quick update... I bought a Silverstone GP a couple of weeks ago. It's not on the road yet as I'm waiting until I sell my other car.

 

[Cup RS 133]

Congrats nice choice the silverstone hope she serves you well glad you found something in the end sure you'll have plenty of fun in her

 

[Tev+]

Congrats nice choice the silverstone hope she serves you well glad you found something in the end sure you'll have plenty of fun in her

Cheers, here's hoping it gives me some fun and trouble free motoring. I drove it back on the 2.5 hour journey then it's been parked up since. I'm looking forward to getting it on the road now!