Brakes ... decisions decision!

[oscar]

So i've been looking at sourcing new brake pads, something a little different. Project Mu N+ racing pads, a european equivalent would be CL RC5+, most of the Japanese performance cars use these pads and they get amazing reviews. I've been recommended them by an old friend who used to work at extreme motorsports who runs these on his Evo 7 and swears by them. They are a carbon metallic compound, and appear to be extremely durable and are priced at £150 so CL territory. I'm going to order them at the end of the month when it's payday, alongside a set of brembo max discs. You might think 150 + vat and import taxes...for a set of brakes, are you kidding me!?!!?! Well, all I can say is that you should never go cheap on your brakes! Especially if you plan on doing track days etc, a set of OEM pads are not going to come close to cutting the mustard!

Z192 is the model you'll need for a Twingo GT as seen here
https://www.project-mu.co.jp/matching/pad/PDF/Z192.pdf

 

[flowerpowerdave]

got my GT braking like beast with yellowstuff pads - £55.

 

[oscar]

got my GT braking like beast with yellowstuff pads - £55.

i'm sure they're fine when they are used on general road applications, but on track applications those pads are awful. i experienced huge brake fade after 5 laps of knockhill and it was pretty scary although it was in a clio mk1. not doubting they're a fairly good pad for daily driving though!

 

[lgonzalez]

I have heard good things about the ferordo ds2500 pads, only downside allegedly is the amount of brake dust it leaves behind.

I'm running my standard oe brakes into the ground before thinking about upgrading them, may as well use them up first as they re amost like new lol

 

[oscar]

I have heard good things about the ferordo ds2500 pads, only downside allegedly is the amount of brake dust it leaves behind.

I'm running my standard oe brakes into the ground before thinking about upgrading them, may as well use them up first as they re amost like new lol

i hear good things about the ferodo ds2500's too although they appear to get bad reviews for track use on cliosport.net, realistically looking for something that will be solid for track use which will still have some performance at lower temperatures on the road. the prices are silly for good brakes!

 

[lgonzalez]

Oh really I haven't heard anything about prolonged track use from them. I am tempted to get custom brackets made up and run the 197 4 pot brembos. There is a guy I know who has done it and I love the way it looks, would be more for aesthetics than actually being required because for sure the twingo doesn't need 4 pots lol. People would say waste of money but I don't care, dare to be different is the way forward I think, modifying cars is for personal enjoyment not other peoples pleasure lol.

 

[oscar]

Oh really I haven't heard anything about prolonged track use from them. I am tempted to get custom brackets made up and run the 197 4 pot brembos. There is a guy I know who has done it and I love the way it looks, would be more for aesthetics than actually being required because for sure the twingo doesn't need 4 pots lol. People would say waste of money but I don't care, dare to be different is the way forward I think, modifying cars is for personal enjoyment not other peoples pleasure lol.

sounds like a plan dude, i'm fairly sure they'd fit but check the caliper offset and compare it with the offset of the twingo wheel and do the maths before you begin! would be a big kick in the plums if you bought all the gear only to find it didn't fit lol

people might say it's over kill but i'd take over kill than being killed. i don't fancy meeting my maker with a facepalm saying ''they bloody eurocarparts brake pads i got for £13! .... RAGING!'' ;p

 

[lgonzalez]

Yeah true lol, I'll have to speak to my friend a bit more and find out what offset wheels he is running to make them fit, he hasn't had any issues with the way they are set up on his phase 1 133

And I always say never try to save money in tyres and brakes buy the best performance you can afford. People at work though I was crazy when I brought a £400 set of tyres for my clio 1.2tce but I'd rather be over braked and over gripped even just on the road.

 

[oscar]

same brake set up on the entire 133 range so you'll be fine if you just copy his brake setup

Dan @ Nengun https://www.nengun.com/ is currently sourcing me these Project Mu pads, he find's it funny that i'm trying to hunt them down for a Renault Twingo lol, at the end of the day i don't care much for brand names. I can't get the Ferodo DS3000's or w/e they are called in my fitment and the CL RC5's seem to fade with prolonged track use like the DS2500's do. Got to try elsewhere, so I don't mind paying a few quid extra to try out a pad that get's used in D1 racing as well as time attack's in japanshire and seem to be growing in poularity. They are just an absolute bas***d to get ahold of and requires importing which means duty fees etc so brings the total up to around 200 quid

no brake dust though!

 

[lgonzalez]

Ah sweet. He said he can get me the same one off brackets fabricated as he still has the blueprints/measurements so to speak

Yeah let us know if you manage to get hold of them and what they are like both on road and track when you get round to it, would love to know.

 

[oscar]

i'm currently running ds2500's so once the project mu's come next month, i am going to make a detailed comparison between the two pads with photographs of measured stopping distances as well as temperature readings of the brake discs seconds after coming to a stop (the hotter, the better in this case!)

besides, mew was the best pokemon!

 

[lgonzalez]

Ah sweet and pokemon is awesome ;-)

 

[MovingShadow]

I've been looking around at discs on Ktec website & Kam Racing.

For example, the Brembo HC discs are alot cheaper than the OEM discs.
Why is this the exactly?
If my car goes in for a service, I would be more looking into some Brembo discs but the price difference scares me as brakes, wheels and tires is something you do not want the cheapest things on.

 

[singlespeed]

I've been looking around at discs on Ktec website & Kam Racing.

For example, the Brembo HC discs are alot cheaper than the OEM discs.
Why is this the exactly?

Mark up / bulk purchace discount / unit sales / packaging / .....

Bizarrely, when I bought a set recently, renault rear discs were cheaper than the brembo ones and they are actually the same part in different boxes. Whilst the fronts were massively cheaper in a Brembo box.

 

[MovingShadow]

I've been looking around at discs on Ktec website & Kam Racing.

For example, the Brembo HC discs are alot cheaper than the OEM discs.
Why is this the exactly?

Mark up / bulk purchace discount / unit sales / packaging / .....

Bizarrely, when I bought a set recently, renault rear discs were cheaper than the brembo ones and they are actually the same part in different boxes. Whilst the fronts were massively cheaper in a Brembo box.

So the OEM discs are the same as the Brembo HC discs?
There are also some Brembo Max Grooved discs (they're the more expensive ones) but then again, not everyone seems to like grooved or drilled discs.

 

[oscar]

I've been looking around at discs on Ktec website & Kam Racing.

For example, the Brembo HC discs are alot cheaper than the OEM discs.
Why is this the exactly?

Mark up / bulk purchace discount / unit sales / packaging / .....

Bizarrely, when I bought a set recently, renault rear discs were cheaper than the brembo ones and they are actually the same part in different boxes. Whilst the fronts were massively cheaper in a Brembo box.

So the OEM discs are the same as the Brembo HC discs?
There are also some Brembo Max Grooved discs (they're the more expensive ones) but then again, not everyone seems to like grooved or drilled discs.

on cars with the cup pack yes, non cupped came with Valeo / TRW discs as is the same with all renaults. in terms of chemical composition, every brake disc is 'HC' so there is nothing special about these HC discs in comparison to the usual style lower end of the market disc - you get what you pay for. good pads & standard brembo brake discs will be just fine for spirited and daily driving, for track or competition use i wouldn't use them due to the complete incapacity of cast iron to withstand thermal shock loading. the 'High Carbon' is a bit cheeky, as it's not really going to be any higher a carbon content than any other cast iron out there. I don't think one small company called brembo has just completely transformed the 3,000 year old metallurgy science with one brake discs lol

 

[singlespeed]

Cast Iron covers a range of carbon contents, so theres not one recipe for it. Higher carbon contents need longer cooling periods during manufacture to control the structure of the metal. But, the greaer graphite content of the metal does have some advantages... Hence some higher spec discs being HC, wether thats from Brembo, EBC, AP or others

 

[Kam Racing]

So i've been looking at sourcing new brake pads, something a little different. Project Mu N+ racing pads, a european equivalent would be CL RC5+, most of the Japanese performance cars use these pads and they get amazing reviews. I've been recommended them by an old friend who used to work at extreme motorsports who runs these on his Evo 7 and swears by them. They are a carbon metallic compound, and appear to be extremely durable and are priced at £150 so CL territory. I'm going to order them at the end of the month when it's payday, alongside a set of brembo max discs. You might think 150 + vat and import taxes...for a set of brakes, are you kidding me!?!!?! Well, all I can say is that you should never go cheap on your brakes! Especially if you plan on doing track days etc, a set of OEM pads are not going to come close to cutting the mustard!

Z192 is the model you'll need for a Twingo GT as seen here
https://www.project-mu.co.jp/matching/pad/PDF/Z192.pdf

You will be wasting your money buying Brembo Max for a Carbon Metallic Pad. All your grooves will do is wear your pads out quicker, with absolutely no benefits. With Carbon Metallic pads you should run plain or at most J hook grooves like the AP Racing discs.

I've just been looking at the Project Mu site and these are not going to be better than CL Brakes RC6. The Racing N+ series is not as consistent in friction coefficient and looks like it needs a bit of heat to get up to working temperature. Its a pity we cannot see a decent graph but its outperformed at all temperatures by the RC6. Project Mu N+ pad ranges from 0.39μ to 0.48μ, RC6 is 0.5μ from cold. Thats not to say its a shit pad, but for the price theres better. The jap stuff will be less aggressive on discs though when cold as the CL brakes RC6 is kinder to discs the hotter the pads get...

How anyone picks a compound from Project Mu though! theres about 20 compounds. Not sure why they need that many lol

Kev

 

[Kam Racing]

I've been looking around at discs on Ktec website & Kam Racing.

For example, the Brembo HC discs are alot cheaper than the OEM discs.
Why is this the exactly?
If my car goes in for a service, I would be more looking into some Brembo discs but the price difference scares me as brakes, wheels and tires is something you do not want the cheapest things on.

The Brembo's retail price is probably £10-15 more than we sell them for, but I buy lots so sell cheap.
I think its generally a no brainer that Original Equipment Renault Brakes will be sold with a larger percentage markup. If you are worried then do your research on the brand. Brembo are one of the biggest manufacturers of brakes in the world so I'd not panic on price as long as you know you are getting a genuine product.

 

[oscar]

To be honest with you, i didn't go for the project mu's in the end. i got brembo hc discs (nothing special, it's a daily driver after all!) and another set of ferodo ds2500 pads which to be honest are pretty garbage but i got a fantastic price from the legend that is G 172 on cliosport.net so they'll do me for a little while until I'm a little more ready to get on track! they are okay at best for a spirited drive but once your brakes are on the borderline of fad ... the just fall off a cliff. the stopping power for the daily driving is incredible though

I got the ferodo ds2500's and brembo HC discs from G172. next day delivery as standard, £33 for the discs and £82 for the ds2500's. been urging george to sign up here for a while and he shall, but it's just not busy compared to cliosport.net lol the traders on there have it made £$£$£$£$£