esso

[flowerpowerdave]

has anybody seen the advert for the double detergent esso petrol, supposed to immprove everything, Esso Sumpreme or somthing like that. also is Tesco Ulltimate made by Esso?

 

[oscar]

esso don't make fuel mate, bp used to own grangemouth but that's now in private handsit's just a massive lie that a lot of folk fall into. fuel in scotland comes out of grangemouth, there is one big refinery tank for premium unleaded and your v-power so on so forth all comes out of that tank. it is all the same stuff. it's just up to the petrol station companies on how they market it, to make you think that it's somehow special.

you'll find that most fuels have 3 different types of detergents in it already, so strictly double detergent isn't a lie...but it actually means nothing. it's merely an advert to say ''hi, buy some fuel from us dave. ours is awesome''

there are only three or four refineries in the uk or something of the sort, and your shell ultimax / v-power blah blah is the same as anywhere elses unleaded, and premium unleaded. it's a big marketing con. companies like exon mobil . total own the refineries as well as a few other companies such as murco. and i do enjoy sitting back silently and laughing at folk who swear by v-power or ultimax or this or that. uneducated folk are always the best lol


edit - yes, esso provides tesco supermarkets with fuel

see here for proof that all the fuels just the same old crap so to speak
https://www.ukpia.com/industry_information/refining-and-uk-refineries/refineries.aspx

 

[LC]

I've always used premium unleaded and I do notice the difference in acceleration and responsiveness, I don't think its a con hence maps that only run on premium fuels

 

[oscar]

I've always used premium unleaded and I do notice the difference in acceleration and responsiveness, I don't think its a con hence maps that only run on premium fuels

it's a placebo effect. unleaded premium offers no power increase on your car, that's actually chemically impossible luke octane rating (95 RON, 97 / 98 RON = Research Octane Rating) is to do with the detonation point of the fuel itself. so if you're running a high compression engine, and plan to soup it up ; example, neil with his cams and much higher power output will want to use 97/98 RON to avoid the fuel igniting earlier than normal. at high revs when the engines hot, using 95 RON usually results in pre-ignition where it goes bang earlier than it should due to engine temperatures.

going from a 95 RON to a 98 RON will allow your cars ignition timing during the mapping process to be advanced or retarded further than what will be achievable on 95 RON which is why you usually get more ''power'' once mapped, but this is all to do with spark or ignition timing. it will also protect against higher flash point temperatures, which is the temperature at which the fuel goes bang


i just seen the advert on the telly dave lol these advert folk could sell a sand to the arabs!

 

[LC]

Arent turbo cars higher compressed?

 

[singlespeed]

Momentum 99 must be different to what you term everything else. Otherwise trading standards would haul Tesco over the coals for miss selling. Likewise, Shell V-power Nitro+ is 99 RON. Any of the other 97 rated Super Plus ones must be different to standard 95 unleaded.

The base stock petroleum will be largely the same, however what each company decides to add to, to increase the RON rating or improve the cleaning etc will be different...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gasoline_additives



If your engine/mapping etc is not pushing the limits for standard unleaded then having extra reserve for knock protection is a bit of a waste. The extra detergent properties may be of some benefit but the price premiem could make it questionable.

 

[Spitfire1]

Shell use to own Stanlow, Esso was Fawley, Texaco was Pembroke and BP was Grangemouth it's just name changes / tax avoidance etc.

Remember if they claim it and they can't prove it - it's one big law suite.

I will say recently, having done the foolish thing of putting some Tesco standard unleaded in the car - it runs like a bag of sh*t, I had it mapped with Shell standard unleaded which performed well, but over the weekend it was really struggling, so next tank full will be some love juice V-Power to wash out all the sh*t and give me a nice clean engine - again.

 

[oscar]

Arent turbo cars higher compressed?

Twingo GT
No. of cylinders Type: 4/OHC
Capacity (Fiscal) cc: 1149
Compression Ratio : 1:-9,6

Twingo 133
No. of cylinders - 4 / DOHC
Capacity (Fiscal) - 1598cc
Compression Ratio - 1:11

couldn't agree more neil!

and rob, no doubt it would be going crazy. your knock sensor will never have done so much work in all it's little life lol. it'll be injecting fuel as normal, and because it can't handle the ignition timing and extra heat, it's going to be igniting earlier than normal on compression and constantly altering the ignition timing to try and learn the fuel. these computers aren't very intelligent. sucks when you're mapped for a higher RON fuel and you accidentally stick in a lower RON fuel

the thing is though, what detergents exactly? and they don't back this up anywhere with the facts. sly as always are the petrol companies! reminds me of politicians, they'll endlessly repeat the same old stuff and leave you wondering lol

 

[LC]

Arent turbo cars higher compressed?

Twingo GT
No. of cylinders Type: 4/OHC
Capacity (Fiscal) cc: 1149
Compression Ratio : 1:-9,6

Twingo 133
No. of cylinders - 4 / DOHC
Capacity (Fiscal) - 1598cc
Compression Ratio - 1:11

couldn't agree more neil!

and rob, no doubt it would be going crazy. your knock sensor will never have done so much work in all it's little life lol. it'll be injecting fuel as normal, and because it can't handle the ignition timing and extra heat, it's going to be igniting earlier than normal on compression and constantly altering the ignition timing to try and learn the fuel. these computers aren't very intelligent. sucks when you're mapped for a higher RON fuel and you accidentally stick in a lower RON fuel

Something like a 200T Clio recommends 98 RON fuel or above

 

[oscar]

that's right luke, turbocharged engines generally create more heat than a comparable N/A engine. with the clio for example, lets make up numbers for the sake of it. if we say the combustion chamber reaches 2k degrees and the flash point of 95 RON fuel is (random numbers again) 1,8k degrees then at high revs when the heat builds up to reach 2k degrees the fuel is going to go BANG earlier than normal, resulting in power loss. the compression also is a big factor in this too

moving upto 98/98 RON will ensure that the flash point is much higher than the cylinder temperatures can throw at it...keeping it simple. neil will be the guy to explain this more thoroughly

 

[singlespeed]

A bit simplified-
Force Induction engines typically have a lower compression ratio when compared to NA engines. So, when off boost and theres little or no pressure generated by the compressor, both engines would be sucking air into the cylinders as the pistons go down on the induction stroke and they could in theory take in the same volume of air... the FI engine will have lower cylinder pressure than the NA engine as theres less squish at the top of the compression stroke.
1600cc engine, 400cc per cylinder
11:1CR - 400cc of air at 14psi compressed into 36cc of space at 150psi
9:1CR - 400cc of air at 14psi compressed into 44cc of space at 126psi.


Add in some boost and the FI engine can inhale far more air than the NA engine. An additional Bar of pressure (~14psi) will see the FI engine being filled with twice the amount of air compared to its NA counterpart.
9:1CR - 400cc at 28psi compressed into 44cc of space at 252psi


Well, thats not exactly true in practice as compressing the air will cause the temperature to increase, hence intercoolers and water injection etc. But, chemical reactions tend to increase with pressure... imagine gun powder sprinkled on the floor, going up in a slight woof ... now put the same charge in a rifle where the pressure cant escape untill the bullet is moving and you get a crisp bang from a faster burn.

If the fuel air mix was the same in both engines and the ignition occured at the same point before TDC, the NA engine would get the mix fully burning at TDC (or just after) so it makes peak torque on the power stroke. Meanwhile the FI mix burns much faster as its at a higher pressure, so its fully burnt before TDC and the high pressure is actually trying to stop the piston reaching the top, which puts massive loadings into the engine and can be heard as knock. For this reason, high boosted engines tend to use a richer mix, which has more fuel than needed. This excess fuel slows the burn rate and keeps it slightly cooler.

 

[oscar]

so have you seen the esso advert neil? lol

 

[KamRS]

While the fuel is the same for all companies when leaving the refinery, there's also the question of quality control that it undergoes from that point onwards. In Poland fuel at the pump is randomly (or after customer complaints) tested by government agencies each year - in 2013 3.2% of petrol and 7.38% of diesel samples taken did not conform to the required standards (think about 10 parameters are tested). Not sure if the UK runs similar tests, but shows it might not all be down to just marketing when saying "buy our / our is better".

 

[nursenickuk]

From what I have read there is only one fuel additive that does anything, its PEA, a nitrogen based one. This is what shell put in their v-power. It won't clean out your engine with one fill but long term use will help to keep things cleaner.