Remap?

[Didge3]

I've heard a lot about remapping in my time, back in my days of turbocharged Fiat Puntos (although I only ran N/A back then) but I've read into it a bit on this forum but I don't really understand it. What I can find is it adjusts the 'map' on the ECU but what does this entail? Does it change how the turbo boosts?
Harking back to my Fiat days people used to go on about power and economy benefits claiming that not only did you get a bit more oomph but also better MPG. Why don't cars come out of the factory like this if such things are true?

 

[LC]

I think most people here use the injectors and fuel pump from the older Clio 182 which boosts it with a remap to about 126(ish) BHP don't know if people perform the remap themselves I'm always wary of doing such things to my car, some maps can push a car past it's tolerances but car designers have to build in so many factors like... Fuel weight emissions power drive etc etc if you souly focus a car on one thing a lot can be achieved.

Someone will be along to confirm shortly I'm sure

 

[oscar]

basically a ''remap'' is when the airflow sensor & fuel paramaters are tweaked as well as ignition advancing. more fuel and air means a bigger bang and the bigger the bang, the faster the turbo spins (because the turbo is just like a wind mill, exept it's blown by exhaust gasses inside the inlet manifold lol) and because it's now spinning faster it means that a bigger vacuum is created inside the inlet manifold which people refer to as boost. regardless of your car being supercharged or turbocharged, they work differently but still do the exact same thing in terms of creating boost. you can map a car two ways, for all out power or for all out economy but most people meet half way and settle for a power increase with a fuel economy increase. to keep it basic, when people refer to putting clio 172/182 injectors in (they are both the same injectors) what they are meaning is that with more air you'll need more fuel and the gt's factory injectors can only inject so much fuel, so with slightly bigger injectors comes more fuel which means a bit more power. that is basically where the whole ''tunning'' culture comes in to play as when you increase fuel to the injectors it means you may need bigger injectors ... and in turn you may need a bigger fuel pump to pump more fuel to the new and larger injectors if you get me??

if i've confused you then i'm sorry!

 

[singlespeed]

A factory map is going to be safe for all grades of fuel and altitudes expected in the sale area, europe, americas, etc, maybe even globally. So, some compromises are written in to safeguard a flood of claims for damaged engines as not all engines are equal, with some breathing slightly better or worse than others.

Optimizing the fuel/air mix and ignition timing for your engine, running on your fuel is likely to give more power. The economy can improve... Imagine previously you needed full throttle to maintain a certain speed. Now, after the remap, you can ease off the throttle slightly and still maintain the same speed. Or, floor it and go faster.


Oscar. Boost? A turbo has two sides to it, a hot exhaust side with a turbine wheel driven by the exhaust gasses, the turbine is linked by a shaft to drive the cold inlet side, which has a _________wheel to ________ the inlet air being forced into the engine ?
A. Vacuum / to do the hovering
B. Compressor / compress

 

[sam666]

clio injectors are over rated lol iv been running 138 bhp and 165ft lb on gt injectors for a year @ 108 % duty nothing has gone wrong. but if you not planing to go all out on your car just a exhaust and map it will be fine. if your planing to go all out on it like bigger intercooler and what not most people would recommend you get clio 172 injectors. as neil said mpg is a big difference motorways i can get 55 - 60 mpg but if your driving it like you stole it you can get low mpg like 20 -25 mpg. if your planing to go all out on

 

[Didge3]

Thanks for the explanations, I sort of understand it now...
I don't have any plans as such but a remap maybe something I'll consider in the future after I get my stainless exhaust.
I don't really want all out power, I'd be happy with a 20 - 25hp increase if it made the car smoother. But this wouldn't be until summer at the earliest.

 

[oscar]

A factory map is going to be safe for all grades of fuel and altitudes expected in the sale area, europe, americas, etc, maybe even globally. So, some compromises are written in to safeguard a flood of claims for damaged engines as not all engines are equal, with some breathing slightly better or worse than others.

Optimizing the fuel/air mix and ignition timing for your engine, running on your fuel is likely to give more power. The economy can improve... Imagine previously you needed full throttle to maintain a certain speed. Now, after the remap, you can ease off the throttle slightly and still maintain the same speed. Or, floor it and go faster.


Oscar. Boost? A turbo has two sides to it, a hot exhaust side with a turbine wheel driven by the exhaust gasses, the turbine is linked by a shaft to drive the cold inlet side, which has a _________wheel to ________ the inlet air being forced into the engine ?
A. Vacuum / to do the hovering
B. Compressor / compress

 

[singlespeed]

clio injectors are over rated lol iv been running 138 bhp and 165ft lb on gt injectors for a year @ 108 % duty nothing has gone wrong. but if you not planing to go all out on your car just a exhaust and map it will be fine. if your planing to go all out on it like bigger intercooler and what not most people would recommend you get clio 172 injectors. as neil said mpg is a big difference motorways i can get 55 - 60 mpg but if your driving it like you stole it you can get low mpg like 20 -25 mpg. if your planing to go all out on

You can program in 108% duty cycle but the injectors can only open fully (100%). Its not like it can open fully and then open some more :?

80-85% is recommended, so there's a margin of safety if an injector starts to fail or the ecu alters fuel trims to add extra fuel. If there's no capacity left, the mixture will start to run lean until the knock detector becomes the controlling factor by adjusting the ignition timing to reduce knock.
Edit:- the knock sensor won't magically fix the lean mixture, it will just help prevent damaged caused by a fuel mix that will burn too hot and fast if the spark was initiated when it should be.

 

[oscar]

basically everything neil said, should never go over 85%. a duty cycle that is over 100% is just telling you that you need a bigger injector or more pressure. That can exist on paper, but not in the real world. Being over 100% duty cycle means that your injector needs longer than the length of one engine cycle at a given rpm to get enough fuel in. going upto clio injectors won't do you any good either, as it's barely an increase in CC. you'd really need to go upto 380cc or around that area to keep the duty cycle in a safe zone. the pico injectors are direct fitments i believe

 

[Willis]

With injectors running at "108%" duty cycle, I would be surprised if the quality/efficiency of the spray pattern was actually still decent. You'd probably have a far more consistent spray pattern and consistent pulse at 95% and I doubt you'd notice the 1-2BHP drop in peak power output on your bum dyno'. Get it turned down and have some headroom, or do it properly and stick some bigger injectors in there...

Remaps, in short, adjust fuelling and ignition advance and boost where applicable. They can also be used to some degree to move the powerband of an engine and increase rev limits etc.. NA engines will always see much smaller increases than FI engines when being remapped.

 

[sam666]

there no point getting it mapped again or map adjusted so it will be a stock car at the end of the month. tbh i cannot fault the map not one flat spot picks up and goes fine i understand its running a little on the dangerous side

 

[Willis]

If you've been running it for a while with no issues then fair play to whoever mapped it. But I'm surprised they let it out with that high of a duty cycle as if it had have gone bang the fault would be very heavily at their door. Do you know what the AFR is at the top end? It has to be on the limit of what's "safe" I'd have thought? But everyone engine is different so...

 

[oscar]

If you've been running it for a while with no issues then fair play to whoever mapped it. But I'm surprised they let it out with that high of a duty cycle as if it had have gone bang the fault would be very heavily at their door. Do you know what the AFR is at the top end? It has to be on the limit of what's "safe" I'd have thought? But everyone engine is different so...

the point is that you can only get 100% maxiumum. this is a calculation of pulse width over rpm, it can never be exceeded no matter what. IDC sometimes gets confused with flow rate but they are one in the same where IDC is 100%, maximum flow rate will be achieved and in which case 100+ cannot be achieved. only 100% flow rate / IDC can be avhieved, everything else is an incorrect fuelling calculation from the ECU trying to inject fuel that cannot be injected to meet the requirements of the incorrect fuelling parameters.

willis, don't cheap by copy and pasting from ls1tech and branding it as your own words
https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/1346166-can-injector-duty-cycle-more-than-100-a.html oh wait you deleted it before i clicked submit. pffttt lol

 

[Willis]

I've got absolutely no idea what you're on about with regards to copy and pasting, can you explain please? And yes 100% is 100%, hence the "108%" in my first post in this thread, you know, in quotation marks. My remark regarding the mapper letting it out with that high of a duty cycle is exactly how it reads, have another go, it shouldn't have been let out running that high a duty cycle, i.e; 100%. I've either completely missed what point your last post is trying to make or there's a joke that I've missed?

I'm not sure what I'm meant to have deleted either? Nor have I any idea why you've posted a link to some Yank forum? Have you confused me with somebody else? I'm lost...

 

[oscar]

I've got absolutely no idea what you're on about with regards to copy and pasting, can you explain please? And yes 100% is 100%, hence the "108%" in my first post in this thread, you know, in quotation marks. I've either completely missed what point your last post is trying to make or there's a joke that I've missed? I'm not sure what I'm meant to have deleted either?

i think i made a mistake dude i'm sorry man. i was having a browse for some diagrams on duty cycle and was going through a few links and gave up. i went to click submit and it didn't submit because another message had been posted from you which had copied and pasted a calculation and explanation word for word from ls1tech which i just happened to be reading at that moment but when i think back i believe my laptop froze between two screens its a pain in the backside sometimes. don't worry it's confused the life out of me too, lets just forget that one dude!

 

[Willis]

Hahaha no worries!!! I've never been on that forum before and I've not copy and pasted anything either so I was a bit lost!?! Nevermind, happens to the best of us.

 

[singlespeed]

I'm not sure what I'm meant to have deleted either?

Me too. I read the post seconds after it was posted.

 

[oscar]

Hahaha no worries!!! I've never been on that forum before and I've not copy and pasted anything either so I was a bit lost!?! Nevermind, happens to the best of us.

no worries man! for the OP, i think the best thing to do is to take your car to somewhere reputable like RS tunning in leeds for example who are basically renault specialists and don't come with the questionable reputation of ktec (although i need to stress that i have never used ktec so can't report negativity from personal experience) because you really wan't someone who knows the ECU in and out like the back of their hand when it comes to reprogramming the engine management. you should expect to see around 120bhp or thereabouts without any modifications