hey i have fitted my ktec exhaust and i have had three different induction kits on now. the exhaust is the full cat back and sounds good etc but in my opinion out of the three induction kits ive fitted, ( k-tec panel, pipercross viper, and open green cotton with standard bottom half of air box still attached) the open green seems to work the best. Before everyone jumps and says heat soak will lose power etc, i think it works best out of the three ive used. For instance it is so much more snapy and responsive on the throttle than the viper and the ktec panel ever was. I can only think this is due to the fact that the filter doesnt have to suck through long cold air tubes with bends and restrictions? Its the same idea as the exhaust system, less bends and shortest path gives best results as its less effort for the engine to get rid of gases so in a sense is it the same for an induction kit? I know that the colder more dense air gives more usable oxygen to the engine giving more power but when the air source on the standard setup is quite a length with so many curves ( and a resinator box which i removed ) when would an open induction kit with shortest most direct air flow (although hoter) be any worse than the colder setups. I know only a rolling road would tell and maybe my car needs setup but its just what i think about it.... what do you guys think?
air filters again.....
- Thread starter toop182
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Anonymous
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if you still keep the viper, streamline will have the scoop by monday but thats their shout if its made, not mine anymore.
i use an open green cotten one, mind you its 25cm long... and my engine will only run with that on as its been mapped for it, change to the enclosed and fueling moans. RS and Ktec tuned car with bonnie open anyways.
If your travelling they aren't as bad as mad out as theres still plenty of air getting to it not just hot stuff from rad. but if your caught on a motorway jam then you'll feel the lose of power for a while. And as you said it should have more response as has a larger surface area then the panel and air can get to it quicker whilst airbox has a 56mm restrictor pipe reguardless if your not running resonator. Aslso get a heat shield, actually can do some good, mine will be hot whilst the cotten behind is luke warm.
what ever you go for, stick with that after the remap, i got graphs everywhere with different filters, bhp may be same but lines and AFR were different
i use an open green cotten one, mind you its 25cm long... and my engine will only run with that on as its been mapped for it, change to the enclosed and fueling moans. RS and Ktec tuned car with bonnie open anyways.
If your travelling they aren't as bad as mad out as theres still plenty of air getting to it not just hot stuff from rad. but if your caught on a motorway jam then you'll feel the lose of power for a while. And as you said it should have more response as has a larger surface area then the panel and air can get to it quicker whilst airbox has a 56mm restrictor pipe reguardless if your not running resonator. Aslso get a heat shield, actually can do some good, mine will be hot whilst the cotten behind is luke warm.
what ever you go for, stick with that after the remap, i got graphs everywhere with different filters, bhp may be same but lines and AFR were different
madmatt
Well-known member
Hi Toop,
I don't mean this to sound bitchy or unhelpful in anyway, hopefully more helpful.
If you re-edit your initial posts with line breaks and paragraphs, more people will actually read it instead of going "oh feck...big block of writing, screw this."
Most people don't bother reading something if it's one solid block of text, break it up a little.
Anyways, back to topic.
Ktec Panel is a Pipercross panel and where cold air feeds are all good for the Viper, it's also a direct route for water.
The best results have been taken from people that have had a BMC Panel filter with the standard airbox.
If you used this with a hose set that deletes the resonator box, you'll have a fairly direct path for cooler, more dense air and a louder induction note.
Hope it helps
I don't mean this to sound bitchy or unhelpful in anyway, hopefully more helpful.
If you re-edit your initial posts with line breaks and paragraphs, more people will actually read it instead of going "oh feck...big block of writing, screw this."
Most people don't bother reading something if it's one solid block of text, break it up a little.
Anyways, back to topic.
Ktec Panel is a Pipercross panel and where cold air feeds are all good for the Viper, it's also a direct route for water.
The best results have been taken from people that have had a BMC Panel filter with the standard airbox.
If you used this with a hose set that deletes the resonator box, you'll have a fairly direct path for cooler, more dense air and a louder induction note.
Hope it helps
madmatt
Well-known member
mazmaz":3cr2xkb4 said:
There's no commandment that says "THOU SHALT KEEP RESONATOR!"
It's a matter of personal preference.
Toop originally asked for how to provide his car with the most direct route for cooler air, ergo, removing resonator = more direct route.
Samco provide resonator deletion kits for this very purpose so there is no written rule that states deletion kits will cause power loss.
Agreed Renaultsport would have invested time and money to develop the resonator box but for 1 main reason: Reduction in intake noise.
Just my 2 Pence
there is just engineer from renault that have spent time to optimise something with real scientific aproach and you want to remove it, just because you "feel it"
after that anyone do what he wants with his car , the important is to have fun
after that anyone do what he wants with his car , the important is to have fun
maggi200
Well-known member
They did it as a compromise to reduce noise I would imagine, not because it provided the best power. Otherwise that engine would be producing much more than 133bhp claimed :lol:
It's common to have them on other cars which aren't performance cars too
It's common to have them on other cars which aren't performance cars too
resonator are for performance in the case of a sporty car
resonator are generaly not present in radom car , because the increase power cause also a less linear engine (and random people like linear non sport engine car)
you remove resonator , you loose mid range power (not final power)
do you really think renault sport spent time to make his sport car less noisy... and at the same time spent time to make system for make them more noisy and sport sound ? ...
resonator are generaly not present in radom car , because the increase power cause also a less linear engine (and random people like linear non sport engine car)
you remove resonator , you loose mid range power (not final power)
do you really think renault sport spent time to make his sport car less noisy... and at the same time spent time to make system for make them more noisy and sport sound ? ...
Matt
Well-known member
I noticed no performance or sound difference when removing mine. Although my filter was changed too so it's hard to tell what's the filter and what isn't.
I am of the opinion that it's there for noise reduction. Companies like Samco know what they're doing with the hoses and they wouldn't bypass it if they though it made a difference.
Without word from Renault though we will never know as it's all speculation and people's opinions.
I am of the opinion that it's there for noise reduction. Companies like Samco know what they're doing with the hoses and they wouldn't bypass it if they though it made a difference.
Without word from Renault though we will never know as it's all speculation and people's opinions.
the sound diference, could be easy notice by ears
power difference need a mesurement
so if you don't notice sound diference seems it's for power
and it's know that resonator are for that
the TRS have nothing on the bonnet for noise reduction
and you imagine the spent money and space with a stupid box that make no difference ....
i will not spent all my time prove thing that are evident, so after that if you still think it's for noise i can can do nothing more
power difference need a mesurement
so if you don't notice sound diference seems it's for power
and it's know that resonator are for that
the TRS have nothing on the bonnet for noise reduction
and you imagine the spent money and space with a stupid box that make no difference ....
i will not spent all my time prove thing that are evident, so after that if you still think it's for noise i can can do nothing more
singlespeed
Well-known member
As the resonator volume and the attachment pipe length and diameter are fixed dimensions, the resonant frequency will be fixed. Therefore, the point at which the resonant pulse helps with filling the cylinders is also a fixed RPM. If this frequency fits into the actual usable rev range, could be calculated (I can't measure anything at the moment)
However, the fact that the resonator branch pipe is so close to the start of the intake tract, the effect of mass airflow acting against it is likely to be minimal, especialy as theres the air filter housing (damped by the filter element), between it and the intake plenum, which will also act as another resonator and fluid spring volume.
If it was connected onto the plenum, behind the throttle body, it may serve a performance purpose, but its location on the 133 looks to be a prime spot for acoustic damping.
However, the fact that the resonator branch pipe is so close to the start of the intake tract, the effect of mass airflow acting against it is likely to be minimal, especialy as theres the air filter housing (damped by the filter element), between it and the intake plenum, which will also act as another resonator and fluid spring volume.
If it was connected onto the plenum, behind the throttle body, it may serve a performance purpose, but its location on the 133 looks to be a prime spot for acoustic damping.
it's true that the position, after the panel filter is strange
but when you remove it, there is not realy sound difference
so why spent so much for something useless
and generaly "Renault sport" tries to get good sound from there car not "no sound"
but when you remove it, there is not realy sound difference
so why spent so much for something useless
and generaly "Renault sport" tries to get good sound from there car not "no sound"
A
Anonymous
Guest
i thought they might of installed it due to using the highest compression ratio they've used on an NA car upto day, higher it goes the louder the engine will be. or a smart way of charging extra parts should the whole system need replacing ^_^
singlespeed
Well-known member
Being as I'm away at work, I have made a few guesses about the dimensions as best as I can remember and using the formula for Helmholtz resonator frequency .here
Resonator volume 1.5 to 2.5 litres
link pipe diameter 40mm
Link pipe length 15 to 20cm
The resonant frequency should be between 85Hz and 127Hz :? Cycles per second
Converting up oscilations per minute, this covers 5100 to 7620, so realisticaly, the resonator could be there to increase volumetric efficiency at the higher end of the rev range, but it is actualy a set size, so will only be effective at a certain frequency somewhere in the range. (remember, this is a 4cylinder 4 stroke,so 1 cylinder is sucking in for each revolution of the engine two cylinders would be on the intake ber revolution)
However, my thoughts over the placement of the thing , make it more likely to be damping the sound at the top end than offering any measurable performance increase.
Resonator volume 1.5 to 2.5 litres
link pipe diameter 40mm
Link pipe length 15 to 20cm
The resonant frequency should be between 85Hz and 127Hz :? Cycles per second
Converting up oscilations per minute, this covers 5100 to 7620, so realisticaly, the resonator could be there to increase volumetric efficiency at the higher end of the rev range, but it is actualy a set size, so will only be effective at a certain frequency somewhere in the range. (remember, this is a 4cylinder 4 stroke,
However, my thoughts over the placement of the thing , make it more likely to be damping the sound at the top end than offering any measurable performance increase.
singlespeed
Well-known member
Infact, I messed up this morning as theres two intake cycles per revolution (it had been a long boring shift). Therefore the effective engine speed that the resonator will be effective would be half what I put before. So, somewhere between 2250RPM and 3810RPM.
The thoughts about the placement remain the same.
The thoughts about the placement remain the same.
A
Anonymous
Guest
have a read of this months reline. good feature on air filters and looks like they tested them correctly on pressure machines and not just dyno'ing it on a car. shows you just how restrictive even a panel performance filter is over a cone but doesnt take into account of under bonnet conditions.
would love a metal filter but would be a nightmare driving by sandy coast everyday
would love a metal filter but would be a nightmare driving by sandy coast everyday
singlespeed
Well-known member
I might be a bit biassed as I have the BMC CDA. Pics here I rotated my filter round, so the stickers are at the bottom.
Obviously BMC CDA is better looking and the 70-130 fits well, straight onto the original RS133 inlet hose or Samco hose without the need for any reducers. The carbon box should provide some insulation to the air temp. As for better flow rate, I haven't found any back to back tests, theres probably not much in it for the 133. The Apollo is a slight winner price wise.
Obviously BMC CDA is better looking and the 70-130 fits well, straight onto the original RS133 inlet hose or Samco hose without the need for any reducers. The carbon box should provide some insulation to the air temp. As for better flow rate, I haven't found any back to back tests, theres probably not much in it for the 133. The Apollo is a slight winner price wise.