RS160 - Twingo Gordini #159

[JoeRS133]

I've noticed ktec have the cams on their website (albeit for what I think is a ridiculous price for a 1.6na car)
What sort of development have they had? Any kind of major development? Are they safe with just a remap?
The reason I ask is because other cars (saxo, c2, swift etc) have had these for years and are proven whereas im guessing these aren't?

Also do you regret spending all your time and money on your twingo?

 

[singlespeed]

I've noticed ktec have the cams on their website (albeit for what I think is a ridiculous price for a 1.6na car)
What sort of development have they had? Any kind of major development? Are they safe with just a remap?
The reason I ask is because other cars (saxo, c2, swift etc) have had these for years and are proven whereas im guessing these aren't?

Also do you regret spending all your time and money on your twingo?

There were already cams for the non-VVT K4M engines and these new ones were measured up and machined against a spare cylinder head and original cams to include the square lobe on the camshaft and VVT oilways which the older version engine didn't have. Then, different shape lobes based on longer duration and higher lift much like any other fast road upgrade.

What do you mean by major development?

I've put over 2,500 miles on mine already and pulled to the raised shift light more than a few times (Also, hit the limitter once) and all seems to be fine. If the cams are fitted as intended then there shouldn't be any clearance issues. I changed the spark plugs out last week and theres no sign of overheating after pulling high revs and then immediately switching off the engine and changing the plugs to save any overheating being masked by low speed /idle running afterwards.

I probably spent more on the Audi and the MR2 previously, and the Twingo is probably more fun... so no, I don't regret it :mrgreen:

 

[waitey]

Now taking bets on how long until neil gets a rusty ring :lol:

Real bets is when he gets throttle bodies since he always upgrades something.

Either that or he strips the interior next and gets a cage and bucket seats :lol:

 

[JoeRS133]

I've noticed ktec have the cams on their website (albeit for what I think is a ridiculous price for a 1.6na car)
What sort of development have they had? Any kind of major development? Are they safe with just a remap?
The reason I ask is because other cars (saxo, c2, swift etc) have had these for years and are proven whereas im guessing these aren't?

Also do you regret spending all your time and money on your twingo?

There were already cams for the non-VVT K4M engines and these new ones were measured up and machined against a spare cylinder head and original cams to include the square lobe on the camshaft and VVT oilways which the older version engine didn't have. Then, different shape lobes based on longer duration and higher lift much like any other fast road upgrade.

What do you mean by major development?
Cool good stuff was interested because im not sure on whether to get a car for trackbuse or keep my Twingo for that purpose.

I've put over 2,500 miles on mine already and pulled to the raised shift light more than a few times (Also, hit the limitter once) and all seems to be fine. If the cams are fitted as intended then there shouldn't be any clearance issues. I changed the spark plugs out last week and theres no sign of overheating after pulling high revs and then immediately switching off the engine and changing the plugs to save any overheating being masked by low speed /idle running afterwards.

I probably spent more on the Audi and the MR2 previously, and the Twingo is probably more fun... so no, I don't regret it :mrgreen:

 

[singlespeed]

Now taking bets on how long until neil gets a rusty ring :lol:

Real bets is when he gets throttle bodies since he always upgrades something.

Either that or he strips the interior next and gets a cage and bucket seats :lol:

AT Power

 

[JoeRS133]

That was confusing. Basically I meant im not sure whether to get a track toy like a saxo or similar or keep my twingo for track use. The problem is say compared to a saxo you have all the relevant chassis upgrades available but not many power options. Also as the Twingo is so rare I dont want to struggle in a few years finding parts. Also compare just parts prices to saxo/106 and the difference is huge.
Maybe I'll let people like you continue to develop the Twingo and then learn from your trials

 

[singlespeed]

Haha. I wondered what was going on but I've just spotted your reply in the middle of the quote.

I think it says a lot about the RS133 in standard spec that it can complete against supposedly better cars on track or fast road and still hold its own. The suspension geometry is simillar to the 182 cup, so its certainly a good starting point but as you say the other options are well trodden paths to a cheap track based toy... although cheap, good, reliable and track will never feature in the same sentence at the same time.

 

[JoeRS133]

Im sure I read somewhere that even a 133 sport has stiffer setup than a 182 cup but not sure if im confused.
I'd love the Twingo for track and even standard like you say its more than capable. It is annoying though that its not that fast.

Im guessing yours is almost exactly same bhp/tonne as the clio 200?

 

[singlespeed]

Im sure I read somewhere that even a 133 sport has stiffer setup than a 182 cup but not sure if im confused.
I'd love the Twingo for track and even standard like you say its more than capable. It is annoying though that its not that fast.

Im guessing yours is almost exactly same bhp/tonne as the clio 200?

If I were you, I'd look into some 15" wheels as you can get Yoko AD08 tyres for the same price as cheaper rubber in the sizes for the 16's. Then, seriously look into the BC coilovers as they have completely transformed the handling which was already good in Cup spec without sacrificing any comfort like I've previously found with other coilovers on different cars (the AST coilovers may be better suited to track use but they are double the price and still have issues). If your going to be at FCS you can see what I mean

There seems to be nothing in it, between mine and Clio 197/200s on a run out

 

[singlespeed]

Needed? I doubt it :?
Will it improve the handling? Again, I really doubt it (but it will be a bonus if it does)
A pain in the arse if you need to get the spare wheel out? Absolutely :?


But I've done it anyway and not used the tops of the dampers like the OMP brace. Braces and rubber mounts just don't add up and, having adjusters down through the dampers I'd rather not attach anything to the top of them.

After not doing any for 5 years, my welding sucks

 

[maggi200]

After never doing welding, ever, it's better than mine

Are you going to keep it black?

 

[weebob]

Needed? I doubt it :?
Will it improve the handling? Again, I really doubt it (but it will be a bonus if it does)
A pain in the arse if you need to get the spare wheel out? Absolutely :?
...

Well done 'just adding weight'

looks good, have you taken it for a run yet?

 

[MovingShadow]

Looks nice.

Doesn't this add a little bit more tail-happy moments in the rain when driving hard?

 

[133_Ads]

Looking good Neil! How much?

 

[singlespeed]

Needed? I doubt it :?
Will it improve the handling? Again, I really doubt it (but it will be a bonus if it does)
A pain in the arse if you need to get the spare wheel out? Absolutely :?
...

Well done 'just adding weight'

looks good, have you taken it for a run yet?

Just had a run out and there was no noticeable change in the handling. Bearing in mind that its dry and it already handles rather well, so exceeding the grip would mean driving like a complete loon. Saying that, our drive is very rough and bumpy which makes everything creak and rattle... the door seals didnt creak as much as usual so there may actually be a change :?

the back seats are rather heavy so overall it should be a reduction

 

[Daveyb133]

So was this a moment of neils done it because neil can? :lol:

Someones been hit by the modding bug hard. Looks good but shame it doesnt do much.

 

[singlespeed]

Looks nice.

Doesn't this add a little bit more tail-happy moments in the rain when driving hard?

An Anti Roll Bar (like the whiteline ARB) to stiffen the torsion of the rear beam will certainly make it more prone to oversteer.

Adding a brace to the rear of the chassis may increase the stiffness of the chassis across the rear suspension beam mounting points. Since the beam is connected to the floor pan, less flex in the body from a certain cornering/roll force should mean the rear suspension beam has to take up the force instead. Being as the rear beam already has a torsion bar welded into it and dampers on either end, the twisting force is now better controlled so the handling may improve.

So was this a moment of neils done it because neil can? :lol:

guilty :lol: I don't think it realy needs it, as I've said before -->>

I can imagine it limits the flex inbetween the shocks within the rubber mounts.

But I agree, the brace mounted on top of a rubber mount with nothing more than a single stud seems like a cop out.
A fully adjustable brace underneith the top mount, with the triple stud, would probably be a better mounting.

It not as if the shocks play a part in the rear suspension geometry, as the rear is a beam and trailing arms, therefore all the geometry of the rear wheels is dependent on the design of the beam assembly and how it's mounted onto the chassis.

All the shocks are doing is damping the vertical motion of the trailing arms, unlike the front which is Mcpherson struts, therefore the upper shock mounting plays a large part in camber, caster and therefore toe angles.

The rear beam is mounted onto the floor pan therefore, for any improvement the torsional rigidity of the chassis around the rear end would need the chassis itself brasing, not the tops of the shock absorbers


Courtney has it sussed - "Although aesthetically I think they are very nice!"

 

[weebob]

the back seats are rather heavy so overall it should be a reduction

but the back seats are still in?

 

[singlespeed]

the back seats are rather heavy so overall it should be a reduction

but the back seats are still in?

I've a spanner in my hand

edit:-
And they weighed 36Kg for the pair of seats and thats also loads of bits less to rattle. I didn't weigh the bar, but I guess its about 4Kg so a decent reduction overall

 

[JoeRS133]

Were the bc coilovers a 'straight fit?' Also are they a set damping etc and just height adjustable or both?
I've seen the weitec one's advertised by ktec and they seem okay and apparantpy made by kw so should be
good?

Really in an ideal world I'd like coilovers with all the neccessary bits to make sure the alignment is 100% and some wheels and tyres thay dont rub all in for underb £1500 is that possible?